[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome, listeners. You're listening to Deeds in the Desert, where real estate investors tune in for the latest news.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome to Deeds in the Desert. This is a special one that we're doing, an impromptu. Pat Vassar, Kerry Cook. Defaults.
Man, we love talking about this, don't we?
[00:00:23] Speaker C: Wow. Just about as much as going into the dentist.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: It is true. But the reason why we're doing this impromptu is we sent out a email the other day to all of our clients and asked for them to send a review in. And I know some people probably think that is the dumbest time to send in reviews when you have 10% of your portfolio in default. Right.
[00:00:53] Speaker C: Right.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: You probably were on board with that.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: Agreed.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: But the reason why I do that is because it's always important to get a pulse of what's going on with investors. And as much as we don't like to hear the negative responses, I think it helps us understand what we need to communicate, maybe better or more. And at the same time, it's like you and I are a little guarded when it comes to defaults for a very specific reason. And we've done a few of these podcasts, actually. We have a four part series, I think, on the client portal about defaults where you and I just kind of go back and forth in a variety of different scenarios. But I wanted to just touch on a few things.
[00:01:36] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: From the comments that we got back from a few investors. And it's not a lot, we're not talking about hundreds, but if one investor has a sentiment that needs to be addressed, I think it's important that you and I do it.
[00:01:49] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: So there's a correlation that I have seen a few times with investors where they say, well, if there's a default, then the underwriting was the problem.
And so I want to go over a couple of projects that we currently have that are in default, or a couple of them we actually have foreclosed on. And let's talk about that correlation that investors are making because it really is kind of a reflection on you and your department. Right. And I think it's important that investors understand a little bit more about that correlation or lack of that correlation, or maybe economic conditions that arise or whatever the case may be.
And then also I think it's important for investors to understand that you and I are investors, our staff are investors. My son is an investor. Right. Do you want to lose your money?
[00:02:49] Speaker C: No, of course not.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Right. I don't want to lose my money either. And I certainly don't want my son, you know, at 16 to 18 years old is like, oh my gosh, I want to invest in this product because my mom makes money off of it. Right. I don't want to lose. I mean, $11,000 for an 18 year old is a lot of money. He worked hard for that. So we get it. Right. This isn't. Not immune to it. If people want to look at the deeds of trust, they're going to see our businesses, our names.
We're just as ingrained in this as they are.
[00:03:22] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: And that's something that maybe investors don't know. Maybe investors aren't looking at those deeds of trust. But that's the first thing I just wanted to bring up.
And let's talk about a couple different projects for just a few minutes because I heard a comment. The comment was, you know, I've been on a couple of loans with Ignite. Two of them were duds, probably lost all my money.
Okay, so here were the projects that we're on. Fig Jackson Crossing.
[00:03:57] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Are they going to lose all their money, Pat?
I mean, these are the things we have to talk about. Right?
[00:04:02] Speaker C: Right.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: And so I'm like, have you ever lost all your money on a real estate transaction ever?
[00:04:08] Speaker C: No, I have not. All of your. If you're in a first lien position, there is virtually no way for that to happen. Now. There could be times where it does because market conditions are so horrid and so bad that the value of the property no longer can support the carry costs associated with it. And maybe the investors or the company, you know, goes bankrupt and they can't fulfill the obligation, the carry costs, you could lose it to a tax, foreclosure sale or other adverse action, but for the most part, no, you're not gonna lose all your money. It just doesn't happen like that.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: Okay. I can tell you I've been investing in real estate for a very long time. I'm assuming you have as well.
[00:04:48] Speaker C: Right.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: Have you ever lost all of your.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: Money on a first trustee? No.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Okay.
Do you foresee that happening with anything that you underwrite in funding? I mean, I'm asking you these question because these are the comments we're getting. We are going to lose everything. And it's like we jump to conclusions very, very quickly sometimes and we get it. It's our hard earned money. Right. But how do you give some assurance to not jump to that conclusion to say, boom, I've lost everything?
[00:05:20] Speaker C: Well, a lot of that just has to do with an emotional take. Right. We as human beings have a propensity to go to a recency. Bias, bias, bias. Whatever's happening right now is what's going to happen in the future. Well, if that were the case a few years ago, our default rate was better than anybody in our industry, was better than banks, was better than everybody. If that were the case, it would have held true all all the way along. We are working hard to get that rectified and bring it down during that process. We will continue to do so and do it. Parapassuit to the investors as you stated earlier, yourself, myself and many others at this company are invested in these exact same projects. And some that I'm sure you're going to talk about today, we're invested in, I'm invested in or others here at the company are invested in as well. And we have no senior lien position to the investors. We have no priority interest to the investors. We're in the exact same way parapasu to the investors. So I think that's a great point that you brought up and something that needs to be talked about. On top of that, as far as the concerns of losing all the money. No, it's just not going to happen. It's not how it works.
We do have more defaults right now than we want. More defaults than any investor wants. And we are working to to fix those. Obviously turn them into either performing assets or get them off of our books via sale, a note sale or through an asset sell after we own them an REO situation. Once that happens, then we look forward to the days where we get back to below market trends and default rate less than banks.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: Yeah. I can tell you historically what I've seen. Other companies like ours when they have issues with defaults, it tends to just take the company out. That's what I've seen time and time again. Right. They get into this market, they think that they can be an underwriter, they think they can originate loans.
Most of them aren't servicing them, so they pass them off. But those that are servicing them, when they run into defaults, what happens is it just is a domino effect. It just starts, just done. And you know, we've been through this before. This isn't our first rodeo. This isn't our second rodeo, this isn't our third. It's not going to be our last. This is part of investing in real estate and when you have to depend on a borrower making payments, sometimes they don't. And there's a variety of different reasons why they don't make payments. So let's talk about this Fig Jackson Crossing, Full disclosure, I have $110,000 on this loan. I don't know exactly what you have, but I'm putting it out there because I think it's important that people realize I'm with you. I'm with you on this. My son has $11,000 on Fig Jackson Crossing. And we foreclosed on Fig Jackson Crossing.
[00:08:10] Speaker C: Yes, correct. We now own it on behalf of the investors.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: All right. Now I think what investors expect is right now you're going to list it and sell it. Okay. Is that realistic in this situation? Is that realistic? Because every real estate project is different. So give me a scenario here.
[00:08:28] Speaker C: Not with this particular project and not for most assets that we originate. If this was just a single family detached home, absolutely. It is very realistic. Realistic to have it listed shortly after foreclosure, under contract, shortly thereafter, and ultimately a resolution shortly thereafter. That whole timeframe, maybe three to six months, is what would be very realistic for a completed single family home. And I think maybe that's what people are kind of corresponding to with our product. But we don't have that. We have a partially developed tract of land that the map has been recorded. Part of the underground utilities have been done. Some of the most of the subcontractors who have worked on the site who actually know what has been completed and has not have not been paid. We eliminated their lien positions on the property via the foreclosure sale. So they're not the most forthcoming with what has been done. So there's a lot of investigative work that has to take place that takes a while to perform.
Additionally, we don't just go with the first person to perform the work. We've gone out on this property specifically and obtained different contractors estimates. Some of them were kind of back of the napkin approach, others were hard bids to subcontractors and others were detailed all the way through with the city. The city was on board with the changes that they would want to make to the plans to kind of value engine value engineer the product that was going to be built by the original borrower. So no, not realistic to have listed and sold in a very short period of time. But. But yes, realistic that things need to be progressing every day.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. And the whole point in all this is time.
It took time to foreclose, it's taking time to review it during that period of foreclosure. What can we do?
[00:10:27] Speaker C: We basically can sit on our hands and wait. The borrower has legal rights and some of those legal rights are a right to cure the note, to cure the default associated with the deed of trust and promissory note during that notice of default time. There is the right to cure 90 days for most states in which the borrower has to be noticed of what is wrong with the asset, what it'll take to become current and give them time to become current, that is that 90 days. I don't care who you are, what state you operate in, that's a legal requirement. There is nothing we as a lender or investors can do to speed that process up. So that time frame is a statutory requirement that is implemented no matter what we do.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: Yep. Should investors want us, as soon as we foreclose on that property, to just list it and just try to get the principal back?
[00:11:25] Speaker C: Probably not. We're probably not going to get our principal back if we do it that way. There's obviously a stigma associated with a broken project. It's been sitting there, partially developed or partially constructed for quite some time. So we need to really get our arms around what's transpiring. When a developer goes in to buy a piece of property, the more risk that's on the deal, the more reward they want. That is they need to buy it for less amount. So if we take some of the risk off the table for them by making the unknowns known, then they're not looking for as juicy of a profit. They're willing to take a little bit less, which means our investors get a little bit more. So that time is money. That time that we're going to uncover these issues that are underground is money that is going back into their pockets. Not right now, yes. But when we sell it and ultimately dispose of the asset.
[00:12:20] Speaker B: So let's talk about this project. I'm going to dig a little bit deeper into this project. When we lent on this project, did we lend 100% to the borrower to complete this project from A to Z?
[00:12:31] Speaker C: No. Simple answer is no, we did not and we have not. What transpires during the duration of a project is very idiosyncratic. It really depends on the deal itself. In this case, a lot of the issues that transpired were borrower driven. They would take investor dollars and potentially misappropriate them and work from the investor side of it, not a lender side. Was not done according to plan. From our side, money has still sitting in escrow to be utilized for the horizontal development which will get us a fully developed property so long as there aren't any cost overruns. Right now, there are a lot of cost overruns that would go into place if we used these new subcontractors because of that risk. Right. They don't know exactly what they're getting into. So we're trying to illustrate that there really isn't as much risk as they're anticipating by showing them what work has already been done, where it currently is and the little bit of work that is needed to complete.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. Okay, that makes sense.
Let's go into another one. Let's go. I'm going to go opposite direction on you because we have a lot of clients that are associated with Future Legends. A lot.
Why, when we were evaluating and underwriting that project, did we decide that that would be a good investment?
[00:14:04] Speaker C: We decided to be a good investment because of the cash flows associated with it and the ease of getting refinanced out once the project is complete. Unfortunately for us, the cash flows aren't in place because the property isn't complete. Once the property is complete, it will cash flow extremely well and therefore easily to get us. It would be very easy to get us refinanced once completed. Unfortunately, we're not in that position right now.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Why do we maintain a relationship or why have we maintained a relationship with that borrower through this duration? It's been a long time since our investors have received an interest payment. And, you know, it's been over a year.
[00:14:47] Speaker C: Right.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: And, you know, we're not talking about a small project here. We're talking about a project that's, you know, $200 million project plus 250 plus. Right. When all is said and done. But when it's done, the revenue generated from this project is. It's astronomical.
[00:15:06] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: Like, it's absolutely astronomical. And we were one of a few lenders involved in this project, and the USDA is involved in this project. Did that give you a level of comfort being involved in a project with the USDA or did that concern you? How did you kind of view that as this whole project in relation to this whole sports complex?
[00:15:33] Speaker C: The simple answer is it's more of a concern than. It's more of a detriment than an attribute. But let me take a step back and you bring up there's multiple lenders on this site. What I want to make sure that investors know and that we don't get conflated here is, yes, there are multiple lenders on the one whole project, but there are no other lenders in a first lien position on our collateral associated with that, just like there is no other first lien position on the usda, they have their collateral, other banks have their collateral, we have our collateral.
So we are in a, a position, a first lien position there. It's not multiple lenders on the same product, same asset, it's within the same project, but different pieces of collateral. So now that we've got that solidified, working with additional banks actually increases the risk because you don't control the whole project. So we won underwriting that required it to be even lower loan to value, which we did. We were able to get more collateral for the project. And although we aren't able to justify that and show that right now, I think when it's all said and done, we will be able to do that.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: Agree. Why?
Why has this borrower done everything possible to protect this collateral?
[00:16:56] Speaker C: This is his life. This is literally everything this man has. It is all tied up into this one project and he's playing ball with, with us, most specifically you. And I think the reason behind that is, you know, we are, we know what's going on out there. We have our, a really decent pulse on what is happening and what's transpiring, maybe not on a day to day basis, but on a week or month to month basis. With that said, the other lenders that are filing lawsuits against him personally, against the project as a whole, aren't as familiar as to what's going on and maybe doesn't believe in having this borrower as a guarantor on this project any longer and is looking to eliminate or remove him from the asset.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: And that's the difference between us and banks. That is the biggest difference between us and banks. Because as I have gone through numerous reiterations of, you know, what are we going to do? How are we going to go after him, what are we going to, you know, what's going to, it's like what is going on here? We as a lender, if we were in the position that the bank was on an asset that is half a million dollars from the difference between having 500 people in the facility and 2,500 people in the facility, from a revenue generating standpoint, what are you thinking?
[00:18:31] Speaker C: It's a no brainer.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: It's a no brainer for us, right? Because the way that we lend is based on the asset and the value of the asset. And I think the mindset around a bank is we gotta hammer that borrower, right? And for us it's about the relationship with the borrower to get the asset completed, to create value, right?
[00:18:51] Speaker C: At the end of the day we're just Creating value for the investors. Investors right now just want their money back. It's simple as that. The best way to get their money back is to be an advocate with that borrower to get the property into a better financial position to either sell it with him involved or sell it with him not involved. Either way, it needs to be in a better financial position. It is not about hammering the borrower. It is about putting that property in a good financial footing to sell it for the best price possible in the shortest amount of time. Unfortunately, we are diametrically opposed from how we're going about this. Yeah, all we are concerned about increasing the value, shortening the time to get our money back. The bank is more concerned with to make sure this borrower never gets any money again from any other bank and ensuring that no additional money is deployed on this asset. None of those are what we're looking for.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: Nope at all.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: And so it is a frustrating experience, not only for us, but I'm sure for investors as well.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And borrowers.
[00:19:59] Speaker C: Everybody. Well, almost everybody, minus the other lenders.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: And I think that's why borrowers look to us to say, you guys actually get it. You care about what I care about and it's the asset and it's creating value. That's what you care about. So that's what we care about. So if we can't add value to these projects that we're taking back through foreclosure, then we're not able to return 100% of the capital to the investors. So we are very unlike other lenders. We originate, we service, we collect, we don't walk away, we don't pass this off to a collection agency. And one thing that I think is important for investors to understand, we could pass this off very easily. We could pass these loans off to the next person and your and I's life would probably be a lot easier. A lot easier.
[00:20:54] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: But that's not how we operate.
[00:20:56] Speaker C: No.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: We stand behind what we underwrite. So for the investors that leave comments about, well, this obviously was a poor underwriting decision in the very beginning. What would you say to them?
[00:21:11] Speaker C: The outcome is a poor outcome and I agree with them 100%. Unfortunately, outcome isn't always derived from the front end analysis. You can spend all your time looking at a project and just because it turned bad or turned good doesn't mean the, the idea of going into it in the first place was a bad one or a good one for us.
In hindsight, there isn't much that we could have changed for this deal to make it a less risky proposition.
If this was brought to us again, knowing that, knowing what we know now, would we do it again? No. We don't want the outcome that is associated with it, but eliminating the outcome that has been associated with it thus far.
The underwriting, which we did, we would do again today.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:21:59] Speaker C: Everything was done according to what we want to have happen. We protected the investors lien rights, we secured their first lien collateral, we made sure the money was deployed as it was intended to be deployed. So I don't think there's anything on that side of things we would change. Obviously the outcome is not ideal, the outcome is unknown. The current status is undeniable.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: And that's probably the most interesting part of what you just said is. Yeah, I mean, we don't know what the outcome is going to be. So as much as we draw ourselves to conclusions out of emotion, out of frustration, it is unknown right now. And so the one thing that I would ask of investors is we have to have patience through this process because I'll go back to a Fig Jackson Crossing as an example. It takes time. We're reevaluating what the value is of this property. We do not want to sell this property. Fire sell this property if there's intrinsic value there that we can either assist in creating by going through 30, 60, 90 days of evaluation and getting bids and all this other stuff that adds value to what we'll end up putting back in the investor's pocket. And as frustrating as it may be to get a monthly update on a client portal, if they're not doing it, please go look at the client portal. Sometimes we don't have an update. Sometimes we're in that 90 day period where our hands are tied. It happens. And we're not going to have an update for you. It doesn't mean we're not still working towards that foreclosure. If there's anything that we can do during that period of time, we're doing it, but we can't really talk about that. And I know that's difficult for some investors to hear and see and know, but we talk about every week, every week we go over every single loan that we have coming, every single loan that we have as part of the portfolio, every project that we have that is in forbearance, we talk about projects that are in foreclosure, we talk about REOs. We drill into these projects on a weekly basis. Sometimes there are updates, sometimes we're waiting for bids, sometimes we're waiting for a cure period to end so we can foreclose on the property. But to think that we are not focused on this is just ridiculous.
We hope that investors can get that out of their heads. This is what we do for a living.
This is what we do. This is all we do. And it's not just an 8 to 5 job for us. It's all the time. You and I are taking calls, weekends, evenings, nights, whatever it takes to get the investors capital back, we do.
So do you have any comments in relation to investors kind of questioning your underwriting, questioning your whatever that you want to relay to them? In a way, I'm not saying that you need to make them feel confident or this, that or whatever, but when you hear those thoughts, when you hear those comments, what do you first initially think? Or do you just do you let it go?
[00:25:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't really have any initial thoughts on it except that if they knew everything that was going on, they probably wouldn't have those comments. And so it comes from a point of either not knowing what's happening that specific moment or not having experience in the matter. Like you said previously, this isn't our first rodeo. We've been through market cycles before, we've been through downturns, we've been through this. It's happened before, it's happening now. And unfortunately with this type of investment, it will happen again. That's the nature of the beast.
You know, I would say aside from kind of the generalities of not knowing what's happening on a day to day basis, I would say there's probably two major takeaways that I see currently happening. And that is if you can't foreclose, you're obviously not in a first lien position, you obviously can't do your job. Yeah, that is kind of a propensity of people today to view where we're currently at. And unfortunately that's just, or fortunately that is not the case while we are in first lien position. But borrowers have legal rights just like lenders do and just like investors do. Some of those legal rights involve bankruptcy involving clouding title, involving mechanics, liens trying to jump in front of hours. And those are issues that we have to work through and resolve some cases prior to foreclosure, it is a legal right of the borrower to cloud the title, to file for bankruptcy and to work with mechanics to potentially get them paid. So just because we can't foreclose right now does not mean we're not in first lien position. It means that we can't foreclose or don't want to foreclose to better improve the assets value prior to foreclosure.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:21] Speaker C: So I think those are probably the biggest misconceptions as to why we're not foreclosing in a snap of a finger.
[00:27:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And why we're not listing the property right away. I get that a lot too. It does take time. And it's so hard when we're on the phone with clients and we're like, yes, yeah, we are moving forward. Yes, we're doing this. Yes, we're doing that. If I and you had the time to run through our day every day and transcribe that and send that out to investors, we wouldn't be protecting their capital.
And so we do it once a month so that it gives us time to evaluate everything that's going on and put forth a communication of fact.
To put forth a communication that is as transparent as we either can be at the time or maybe should be at the time. Because the other detriment that we have here are investors that want to get involved.
They feel like they can help.
They want to take an initiative to maybe call the borrower themselves or maybe go to the court hearings for future legends and get us the most updated information as they possibly can. Although we appreciate their concern, please be careful because you could be affecting your capital preservation as well as thousands of other people. And so please allow us to do our job. This is what we do.
This is all we do, is this. If we weren't transparent, I wouldn't have sent out a review and said, hey, I want to get a pulse, get the pulse back. This affects everybody here. Our employees have to deal with these questions day in and day out as well. And so they probably are getting more communication than an investor is. But they're also talking with these investors on a day to day basis. So they need to be as up to speed as we can possibly get them. So this isn't about us running from anything. This isn't about us hiding from anything. This is about us just being us. This is how I prepared to sit down and have a conversation with you.
[00:29:34] Speaker C: You wrote three properties down.
[00:29:35] Speaker B: I wrote three properties down as just a quick point of reference because this is just who we are. This is how we communicate, this is how we talk about things.
But I do think it's important sometimes for investors just to hear us have some dialogue about this so that they understand what's going on.
[00:29:53] Speaker C: Yeah. And if they need to, or if you want to get in the technical aspects of each one of those or other ones or generalities of what can come up with a bankruptcy. Why? They're not all the same. I mean, obviously we can get into that as well. I think right now is what you're looking for, is just why. Why are we in the position we're in and what's going on with the underwriting?
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what they want to know.
[00:30:18] Speaker C: Right.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Well, my underwriting hasn't changed.
Your philosophy to underwrite hasn't changed.
Do we learn things along the way?
[00:30:28] Speaker C: Of course.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: As we should. Right there. There are definitely going to be things that we learn along the way. We're not perfect.
Neither one of us are perfect. If we could go back and redo, like, is there any project that you can think of in your career where you're like, gosh, I wish I wouldn't have done that. I learned a valuable lesson. Never doing that again. Absolutely right. We've all been there. We're not playing with investors money. This is our money too. So, you know, we're on all of these.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: I'm on the defaults as well.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah, we're on all of these loans. So. So we get it. We're not gonna stop fighting. And I hope that that gives investors a little bit of insight as into, you know, kind of how you and I operate. Like this is we're conversing daily. Even this morning. Right, Even this morning. Talking about loans that are going through foreclosure that, you know, even other investors that are associated with the loans are getting involved in.
[00:31:30] Speaker C: Right.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: And so, yeah, it's. Everything's on the table for us. Everything is on the table.
We, from an employee standpoint, making sure that they are well educated to an investor standpoint, making sure we, at minimum, get a monthly communication out to them on what's going on with the project annually, you know, making sure that we're returning as much capital as we possibly can on the reo. Some of them are going to be out there a while, and there's just not a whole lot we can do about it.
Some of them have code changes that happen along the way. Like, you know, as time progresses, can it get worse?
[00:32:06] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:32:07] Speaker B: Can it get better? Yes. It could go both ways. It's very specific to the project. That's the beauty of us. We're very unique. I talked about other lenders, how they. They come and go. You know, we don't come and go. We're not a one trick pony. Each one of these projects are all different. That's the beauty of it. If we were all in, you know, single family entry level homes when, you know, the interest rates were increasing, where would we be Pat? Would we be here?
[00:32:35] Speaker C: No.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: You know, and so we knew enough to know to move our portfolio out of that.
[00:32:41] Speaker C: Right.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: Like so diversification, having multiple projects, being on multiple projects, you know, not putting too much in one area, one borrower, one location, one this, one that. Like, you know, use your judgment. That's why they get to choose the investments.
[00:32:58] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: So you know, choose with diversification because what we put out there, we stand behind, we invest in it and we're, we'll keep fighting for them.
[00:33:11] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: That, that will never stop.
Any other last sentiments?
[00:33:19] Speaker C: You know, this too shall pass. We will get back to a sunnier time. Right now is investors are feeling it, we are feeling it. The borrower is feeling it, the market as a whole is feeling it. We are not immune to mistakes, we're not immune to market corrections and we're not immune to borrowers ineptitudes. We will continue to fight on investors behalf for the best outcomes possible. But during this time period we just need a little patience and a little time to fight through these assets, fight through these problems and there will be light at the end of this tunnel.
[00:33:56] Speaker B: There will. Well, thank you guys for joining us. We appreciate it. Like I said, this is just us being us. We have other videos about defaults. We don't run from it. We are head on when it comes to defaults. If you have any questions, reach out to our client services team and if not, please reference other videos on this topic. Thank you so much for joining us. See you soon.
[00:34:18] Speaker C: Take care.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us this week on Deeds in the desert where short term investments meet long term investors. We hope you enjoyed the content so much that you share it with all your friends. Who doesn't like learning about passive fixed income, right? Still hungry for more education? Visit our
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